Talk:Wagons originally acquired for the WHR rebuilding

I think this list should be merged with the FR wagon list. Now that the two lines are joined these wagons are equally likely to be found on either line, especially during the winter works programme. In fact some (eg the 500X EAG wagons) are almost exclusively used on the FR and the only one which is never on the FR is the SAR brakevan. Likewise lots of so called "FR waggons" are used on the WHR with the result that a single F&WHR list would be much more reflective of the current situation. Any thoughts Eheaps (talk) 17:05, 3 February 2018 (UTC)

I think, on balance, probably not. I know they are all owned by the FR Co and there is plenty of interworking, but we keep most things WHR separate from the FR on here, and I think the carriages should be kept in separate lists because of the loading gauge issue and for consistency the wagons should have similar treatment in my opinion. Do you know if the WHR ballast hoppers are cleared to run up the FR? Also do you know if there is any official list of wagons - a lot of what is on here is compiled from sightings, photos and news reports but I am sure it is not complete. I guess the name of this page should be changed though, now that WHR(C) is not used elsewhere, maybe 'WHR Current Wagon List' perhaps? George Cash (talk) 02:05, 5 February 2018 (UTC)

The rule book has a partial list, it shows that the only wagons not allowed on the FR are the SAR Brakevan and the SAR style water wagon (DZT2003). The ballast hoppers are another good example of wagons that see as much, if not more, use now on the FR than the WHR. Perhaps the new title of this page could be something like "Wagons originally acquired for the WHR rebuilding" (but perhaps more succinct). I think they should also be included the main numbered wagon list (perhaps with note about originally being WHR) as they are very much F&WHR wagons now. I'm pretty sure that some of the ex-SAR wagons have recently been repainted with only the initials FR too!

More generally I would like to see the Wiki moving away from trying to rigidly categorise everything into either WHR of FR as the railways are no longer fundamentally separate. I agree that for some categories it makes sense (locos, carriages, signals) and that pages dealing with pre-preservation history can also remain separated (as they were two separate railways in the past). But in other categories (wagons being a good example there is now very little distinction. Eheaps (talk) 09:12, 5 February 2018 (UTC)

I suppose if the Company doesn't make any distinction but uses them all over then you could go ahead as far as I am concerned. I suggest the FR Wagons page would then have to be 'FR & WHR Wagons' and should include the Wagon Types list from the present page (probably above 'Other Wagons'). It's a pity there is an overlap of numbers, a few of the SAR wagons are below 1000 so would have to go in the appropriate pages, but the rest of the WHR page would be combined with the present '1001 up' page. I would suggest not splitting it any more than that as it's not a long list. It may be best to move EAG1-4 and the Hudson flat to the 'Construction Stock' page as they aren't numbered in the main series. The Hudson's already mentioned there. George Cash (talk) 01:40, 6 February 2018 (UTC)

Did you plan to keep this page now the details are on the main Wagon List? It will be useful to have a record of the origin of these wagons but I think it would be confusing and a source of errors to have to update full details of changes and mods here and in the main Wagon List. How about this list simply having the basic descriptions and a note to say that full details of developments are on the main Wagon pages?George Cash (talk) 19:44, 9 February 2018 (UTC)

I agree, I think simplifying this page to contain a simple list and some text to explain the background would be sensible. I was holding off on doing anything too drastic until other pages had been sorted out to ensure information remained accessible. Eheaps (talk) 20:48, 9 February 2018 (UTC)